Kolkata Dec 1992

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Devotee: I have heard that the chanting of one round of the Holy Name on any holy place like Vṛndāvan is thousand fold, can give thousand fold more benefit than somewhere else, is it true?

Śrīla Gurudev: It is truth, but everywhere there is two things, everywhere is two things; there is Dhām-aparādh and Nām-aparādh, will go behind us, then we avoid that, and can stay and chant, and other place it is quite different, chanting in other place than Dhām. No doubt Dhām is, mane, transcendental. And where we go that not may be transcendental. But inside of the bottle there is honey, and outside of the bottle we can stay there. That is also near to honey. Then some may have good inspiration, everything, must we will get that benefit. To stay in Nabadwīp, stay in Vṛndāvan or Puri, in remembrance of Mahāprabhu, remembrance of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, it will come in our mind, and through that we must get more benefit than Kolkata.

2:33 Also who can see Kolkata other way, he also be more benefitted, that here living Bhakti Siddhānta  Sāraswatī Ṭhākur, Bhakti Vinod Ṭhākur, they tried to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world from this place. And this also very holy place, we can say other way. That is, everything living in consciousness Guru Mahārāj said, this is a very vital point, and always fighting with his godbrothers also on this point. Fighting not, discussion actually, my English is poor, and it is going other way, always discussing about that point.

3:30 And Guru Mahārāj in same position always. And they are trying to remove that consciousness, trying to remove Guru Mahārāj from that conception. And Jājāvar Mahārāj, especially Jājāvar Mahārāj I have seen this fighting with Jājāvar Mahārāj.

Devotee: You said one day, Jājāvar Mahārāj was saying, “Well if everything is in consciousness, if everything is conscious, then why doesn’t this chapati jump off the plate onto another plate?” And Guru Mahārāj’s reply was, “Yes, it can.”

4:23 Śrīla Gurudev: First Guru Mahārāj’s, “What you are looking, that is not truth.” That is Guru Mahārāj’s first conception. What you are looking, what you are seeing, what I am looking, I am seeing, it is not truth. Then Jājāvar Mahārāj, “It is not truth? This is not ghari?” [laughter]

Devotee: This is not a clock?

Śrīla Gurudev: But you are looking this is clock. It is truth, but you are looking opposite this clock. It is like this, not like that. And you will understand when you will give slide in magic lantern, then eye vision always showing you opposite.

5:22 Devotee: Magic lantern being a projector, slide show……

Śrīla Gurudev: Then eye vision always showing you opposite, not positive. You are seeing always negative. This way starting. And lastly Guru Mahārāj told, “Everything living in consciousness. If you are unconscious you cannot see anything. And if not consciousness is clear, you cannot see the Kṛṣṇa-loka or anything.

6.05 This way going every day, and fighting sometimes. And we are relishing. Which way I shall give that to my friends? Always I am thinking that, the mood of devotee. Jājāvar Mahārāj and Guru Mahārāj, completely separate mood.

6:41 But in one way they are same. That is, both are practising Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And both are good devotee to Kṛṣṇa, and both are very sincere. From middle point I am getting it, not Guru Mahārāj’s disciple [I’m seeing from a neutral perspective, not as a disciple]. Disciple of Guru Mahārāj, I must see my Guru supreme, and I am not telling that way. Realisation. And sometimes both are fighting heavy. That fighting … I do not wants to tell that type of fighting. But finally that reaction not coming to me. That’s,

7:39 I wants to establish that to my friends’ heart. They are talking, fighting means they are talking. They are talking, debating, and debating going on high. Also debating going on with Swāmī Mahārāj, very, mane, high way. And up to two o’clock some day with Swāmī Mahārāj in Kolkata. And in Nabadwip, Jājāvar Mahārāj coming for that, for, mane, discussion with Guru Mahārāj. And he is staying one month, two months in Chaitanya Sāraswat Maṭh for discussion only in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

8:32 Many things they are discussing. And we know Guru Mahārāj, he is ocean of knowledge, transcendental knowledge. And they also knows it, that if they will come to Guru Mahārāj, they will be satisfied. But until satisfaction, they are debating with Guru Mahārāj, and heavily debating. That effect must come to us in negative way, but not came that. Always that effect coming to us positive. It is mercy of Jājāvar Mahārāj and mercy of Guru Mahārāj. You see my, mane, application. Still I applied it, first I gave name of Jājāvar Mahārāj, then I gave name to Guru Mahārāj. Understand? This is proper application.

9:34 And why this come to us? That is mercy of Śrīla Guru Mahārāj, it has come to us. And I am always very obeisance to Jājāvar Mahārāj, very much obeisance to Śrīla Guru Mahārāj. And they are differentiating their mood, showing different mood, but from that different mood, we are not getting any negative anything. And which way I shall give to my friends and brothers, that mood I am always thinking. And this is only, can save us. Otherwise cannot save us.

10:33 I heard many things from Jājāvar Mahārāj, I heard many things from Guru Mahārāj also. And when they are debating, they are already fighting. But śraddhā, our faith to Guru and Vaiṣṇava, we not lose that. We not think that Jājāvar Mahārāj is bad and Guru Mahārāj is good. Never think it. Completely different they are going line, taking line. Someone taking, in other way you can say it is nastik, atheistic. Someone going theistic, someone going atheistic. Like that sometimes. It has happened.

11:22 And also we have seen when other Godbrothers of Guru Mahārāj, they are all very high paṇḍit, highly qualified. We can name that Vaikhānas Mahārāj. He was great paṇḍit and highly qualified, and they all coming to see Guru Mahārāj, all time. And when they are coming, debating with Guru Mahārāj, always. There [their?] question and answer, always going. Whole day sometimes going, question and answer. They are eating, resting, then again going to Guru Mahārāj and question and answer. And it is happening in fighting way, not asking.

Devotee: Challenging …

12:20 Śrīla Gurudev: Challenging way it is going, not asking. But they wants to know from Guru Mahārāj. And somebody is senior than Guru Mahārāj, and Guru Mahārāj is junior, but they are asking questions to Guru Mahārāj. They need some conclusion of the fact. Scriptural, many things, they are, mane, debating with Guru Mahārāj. But we not lose faith with them. Mane, myself I am telling. I not lose faith to them.

13:09 But full regard I have for Goswāmī Mahārāj, full regard I have for Mādhav Mahārāj, and Vaikhānas Mahārāj. Many qualified Mahārāj there, Śrauti Mahārāj, and they are all looking me as their boy. They are not thinking, I am disciple of Śrīdhar Mahārāj, I am disciple of his, disciple of others. When they are coming, they have also some disciples with them. Somebody, two disciples, somebody, four disciples bringing with them for their convenience and also fortune [?indistinct] they have. But we are not feeling that time that he is other group, I am other group.

14:11 When Jājāvar Mahārāj’s disciple coming and we are like, mane, twin, twin brother. Twin brother, twin brother, English? (Yes) We are like twin brothers we are behaving with each other. But our feelings was very nice feelings. Not only that, and I know why Guru Mahārāj crying. When his, any godbrother dying, Guru Mahārāj crying. And crying, mane, not only outwardly, mane, heavily. He is getting sick. That type of affection with his godbrothers. And also when we heard that Jājāvar Maharaj’s disciple, like Bhaṭṭa Kṛṣṇa, he died, others Mahārāj, Goswāmī Mahārāj disciple died, then we are also crying for them. And this type of relationship, why we cannot establish now? I do not, mane, understand.

15:34 Actually I know where is gap, but I cannot fill up that gap. I am trying to fulfill that gap. I went to the West, and I told this other way this conception. This morning you are telling, “I am, not come with party feelings.” I come to the West to establish our Guru’s conception, and that is the supreme conception. Not come for a, mane, ki bale? (taking sides) ha. I am not campaign-man, and that feeling we have got from our birth time. When I joined, Guru Mahārāj asked to Kṛṣṇadās Bābājī—next day Kṛṣṇadās Bābājī came to see Guru Mahārāj—and Guru Mahārāj asked, “See this boy. This boy told this, this, this, this, this thing, and you know about that. You examine this boy.” What good feelings!

17:04 And Kṛṣṇadās Bābājī examined me many way in song. That time I told I know Vaiṣṇava songs, and Kṛṣṇadās Bābājī knows many songs, more than Guru Mahārāj. And many way he also examined me, and he told, “Yes, Mahārāj, he knows something.” And they are happily talking… When Guru Mahārāj heavily told to Kṛṣṇadās Bābājī Mahārāj, that time I was very sad, and I, mane, given objection to Guru Mahārāj. “Why you told it?” Relationship with Guru Mahārāj I have very close. I can say anything to Guru Mahārāj. That was my relation. Then I ask, “Why you told it to Bābājī Mahārāj?” He always helpful for our Mission, always affectionate with you, high regard he is keeping in his heart for you, and you behave like an ordinary man. And it is paining me.”

Devotee: It’s when he sent him out from the Maṭh.

Śrīla Gurudev: Yes. And Guru Mahārāj said, answer is very, mane, high thinking. Guru Mahārāj said, “I cannot make offense to my Guru. Prabhupād Sāraswatī Ṭhākur, he do not want his any disciple will go to sahajiyā kīrtan, hearing sahajiyā kīrtan, and he is going to do that. He is my best friend, maybe, but not more than Prabhupād.” This is answer of Guru Mahārāj, “Prabhupād Sāraswatī Ṭhākur, he not like it, and he is my best friend. Why he is doing it? And many times I told, he not giving hearing. Then very hardly, very hard to tell him, but I must tell, otherwise, I make offense to my Guru,” and I am clear. Guru Mahārāj also crying, his heart crying, but he cannot ignore his Guru.

19:34 That type of feeling for Vaiṣṇavas, for Gurus, for godbrothers, we have got it. And that is my weakness, you can say. I cannot chastise heavily to anybody. And I am always searching which way I shall compromise with this matter. Harmonise, not compromise, harmonise with this matter. In South Africa, there going two party feelings, but which way I shall harmonise, I do not know. But it is necessary to make harmonise. In Holland there also going two party feelings. One is (?), one is Bon Mahārāj. But I tried so many way. Lastly I told to (?), “We are living in Nabadwīp, twenty party, in one small village in Nabadwīp, twenty party we have.

20:57 Sāraswatī Ṭhākur’s disciples’ Maṭh, more than twenty in Nabadwīp. We are harmonising way we are living here. And why you cannot stay in the, mane, country, two party only? Without offence you can preach there to each other. Maybe you cannot same, you cannot compromise with his conception, principle. Maybe (?) cannot compromise with Bon Mahārāj’s principle, and Bon Mahārāj cannot compromise. But without offense they can go, within his own way, no problem, but why cannot do that? This way I wrote many times. Maybe twenty letters I gave. But lastly I am failure. I tried to harmonise. And lastly I am giving full support to them, but more support to Bon Mahārāj, and there is some cause.

22:25 That is, Bon Mahārāj took sannyās from Guru Mahārāj; he is a sannyāsī. His position and one gṛhasta’s position is not same. And other thing, Bon Mahārāj, he is trying to follow wholeheartedly with his sick body the Guru Mahārāj’s preaching conception. Then I gave more regard to Bon Mahārāj, and when (?) said, “You don’t believe Bon Mahārāj,” like that, then I am not same with him. I know Bon Mahārāj; I have some brain. I have seen in him something. In which way I ignore, I deny his… and he is a devotee, and when Guru Mahārāj said ‘he is a devotee’, that is final.

23:36 What is my conception, here not so important. Important, Guru Mahārāj gave him position; he is a devotee. And he is follower of Guru Mahārāj, and he not leave his sannyās or anything. He is trying as much possible by him. Maybe he is not a big Mahārāj, but what he have, with that he is doing some sevā of Guru Mahārāj. I cannot ignore him, and I told to (?) Prabhu, “Prabhu, I cannot ignore him, but I cannot also ignore you. If you cannot go with him, you go separately. But don’t disturb him, and he not will disturb you. You forget it.” And lastly (?) gave me letter, “Yes, I am forgetting it.” This way. Then he is forgetting me now.

24:46 Then it is true, I am failure actually, and I wants to make it harmony, and it is very hard to make harmony. With everything adjustment can Kṛṣṇa do only. Māyā and Kṛṣṇa, and chit-śakti and jīva-śakti. Everything Kṛṣṇa going harmonising way.

Devotee: But still they went to battle at Kurukṣetra.

Śrīla Gurudev: Yes. [laughs] And when it is coming in the form of gangrene, Kṛṣṇa cutting that gangrene part of the body. What He will do?

25:34 But it is not happily accepting. Nobody can accept happily, actually. You see, my affectionate friends, almost you can say sixty percent, they are all Swāmī Mahārāj’s disciples. Śrīla Swāmī Mahārāj’s disciples sixty percent friend of mine, and they are working on behalf of Chaitanya Sāraswat Maṭh with affection, and extremely affectionate with me. And then they are getting something from me, otherwise, why they are so much affectionate with me? And what they are getting? And why cannot give to others that conception? I am trying always this way. You see Sāgar Mahārāj, he was Guru. In the time of Guru Mahārāj he was Guru, then he have no problem to take disciple, but for affection with me and regard for Guru Mahārāj, he left to take disciple, actually.

27:15 Janārdan Mahārāj, he was Guru in the time of Swāmī Mahārāj, time of Guru Mahārāj. And Āśram Mahārāj also like that, he was Guru in the time of Swāmī Mahārāj, in the time of Guru Mahārāj. They are trying so hard for my preaching work, and with full affection, full. Yudhāmanyu Prabhu, he is disciple of Swāmī Mahārāj, and he is a blind follower friend, trying as much possible by him. You see, everywhere I am looking … in London, when I went to London, there is Guru Mahārāj’s disciple, very few. In America few disciple of Guru Mahārāj, but all disciple of Śrīla Swāmī Mahārāj, actually. In Australia also. But I am trying this way, to make a whole, mane, universal, conceptional …

Devotee: Acceptance for the devotees.

28:48 Śrīla Gurudev: I wants to make an universal religion. That is called jaiva-dharma, what given our Guru-Varga, Śrīla Swāmī Mahārāj, Prabhupād Saraswatī Ṭhākur. It has started from Saraswatī Ṭhākur, and now it is whole world chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahāmantra by the grace of them. Already it has come out, but unfortunate soul they cannot take it. That is very, mane, sad news. And ego is the best, mane, ego is the worst enemy of everybody, and that is necessary to remove, and which way it will be possible, I do not know.

30:05 Devotee: Mahārāj?

Śrīla Gurudev: I am … yes, Prabhu?

Devotee: No, no, please continue.

Śrīla Gurudev: Can tell …

Devotee: No, no, finish. I thought you were…

Śrīla Gurudev: You can tell.

Devotee: No, no, please finish. [laughter] Because it’s getting late and then you have much work to do so… it’s getting late so then you finish first, Mahārāj.

30:26 Śrīla Gurudev: Narasingha Mahārāj. Somebody told something to Narasingha Mahārāj, then he make out Guru Mahārāj’s photo from his altar, but I gave some description, harmonising description, and immediate he took it, and I was very happy.

Devotee: Put it back.

Śrīla Gurudev: Huh?

Devotee: Put it back.

Śrīla Gurudev: Yes.

Devotee: Put the photo back.

Śrīla Gurudev: He took out Guru Mahārāj’s photo from his altar. And when this news come to me, I told, “I not told to Narasingha Mahārāj, you put photo of Guru Mahārāj in your altar.” And it was not necessary to put Guru Mahārāj’s photo in his altar. That is, he is complete disciple of Śrīla Swāmī Mahārāj. That is enough for him. His photo, then Swāmī Mahārāj’s photo, then Prabhupād Saraswatī’s photo. This is preceptorial line. There is no harmful anything. If he will put it, nobody will disregard.

31:55 Devotee: Object

Śrīla Gurudev: Huh?

Devotee: Object, oppose …

Śrīla Gurudev: Object, oppose. Nobody can oppose it, and I am not. But now it is paining me. When he putted Guru Mahārāj’s photo in his altar, and I ask him, and he told, “He’s my Śikṣa-guru and Dīkṣā-guru”; that is, changed his name Narasingha Mahārāj. He was Jagad Guru Swāmī before, and he changed his name as Narasingha Mahārāj, Bhakti Gaurava Narasingha, (Yes) and given by Guru Mahārāj. (Yes) Then he is thinking Guru Mahārāj is Guru, and he put it. I told okay, no problem. But he heard something from somewhere, and he is thinking it is not proper and he change it. Then I told it is not good, and I gave some reason, and he heard it, then he think, “Oh, it is paining Govinda Mahārāj, and Govinda Mahārāj is my friend,” and he changed that, and I have not seen in his temple, and he, first think Govinda Mahārāj not will come to my temple.

33:33 But it is true, I am not going where is difficulty, but I have much affection with him and good relation with him. Then, when he invited me, “You must come, Mahārāj. Why you not staying in my Maṭh?” Then I have some excuse, but when he invited me, I think he is intelligent, and what is objectionable, he can understand, and he must will harmonise with this. Then I went his Maṭh. If I not shown that affection with him, then our relation will be cut off, but I do not wants to cut relation with him. Before I met with him, he was friend. Something happened in the middle, and for that immediate we cannot cut the relation. That was my idea. And maybe we can adjust, we can harmonise this. And he have seen my mood, he have seen my nature. And he, when I went his temple, I have seen in same altar, Narasingha Mahārāj, and Swāmī Mahārāj, and Guru Mahārāj, and Prabhupād Saraswatī Ṭhākur, this way, his altar.

35:25 Then I have not seen anything wrong, actually. It has happened in middle way, something happened. But it is spoiling the mind of the devotees. Someone done it; otherwise he, why he, mane, oust the photo of Guru Mahārāj? Someone done it. And why they are spoiling the mind? They do not know anything.

I have some one letter I heard this morning. ‘Your Guru Mahārāj and my Guru Mahārāj, your Guru Mahārāj and my Guru Mahārāj, your Guru Mahārāj and my Guru Mahārāj’. Told many times in that letter. He is disciple of Śrīla Swāmī Mahārāj, and he is when mentioning, ‘Your Guru Mahārāj and my Guru Mahārāj’. We are not habituated with this conception, actually, and we are not telling that way. It is always making different, ‘Your Guru Mahārāj and my Guru Mahārāj’. This is not good conception, but they are habituated with that conception, and that is difficulty. But it is necessary to remove. We are all in one family. That conception first come.

36:55 My father, and my uncle, and my grandfather, and my uncle’s son, nephew, we are all in one family. And why we will quarrel, first thing. Second thing, if anybody little going some different way, we shall try to keep in our sampradāya, some way with harmonising mood, and that is good for our society. We are very few in this world, three hundred crores of people. Three hundred crores, you know? Three hundred crores, crores?

Devotee: Crore is … one hundred thousand lakhs, and one lakh is hundred thousand …

Śrīla Gurudev: Hundred thousand in one lakh. Three hundred crores of people, but how many we are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness life? Very few. There is no percentage, maybe zero point zero zero five (0.005%) we are. And if we will quarrel, then which way we shall, we will try to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Some of the devotee come in Guadalajara. They took initiation from me, and ISKCON Guru come immediately, and he talk with me and he was happy with me. And he said me, “Mahārāj, that fellow took initiation from you, but they are servicing in our ISKCON Mandir. Now they are your disciple. Then what is your desire? They will serve ISKCON or not?” He direct asked me. And I told, “Why not they will serve ISKCON?” I cannot understand. They are doing service in ISKCON. And it is very good, I think. They can serve. But you also must be sober with them, and you don’t abuse any way Guru–Vaiṣṇava to them, and they happily will serve you, and this is the real conception.

39:51 Many of the sannyāsī coming to see Guru Mahārāj, and with that sannyāsī many of the devotee coming too, coming with them, but we never abuse their gurus. Or we never, mane, think they are out of our society. We are thinking we are in one family. He is my uncle’s son, he is my, mane, brother, he is my cousin. Like that. Our friends are going in this mood, and you have seen sometimes coming other Mahārāj’s disciples to our Maṭh to see me. That is  Parvat Mahārāj, Goswāmī Mahārāj, Mādhav Mahārāj, Jājāvar Mahārāj, their disciples are coming to see me sometimes. And if you see our mood, you will be surprised to see that. You cannot understand that he is not disciple of Guru Mahārāj, and I am not disciple of his Guru. Our relationship going this way. And this feeling going, then we are happy with our family actually.

41:25 And I am always thinking, thinking, thinking that way, and every day this is my headache. That is, from the West many letter coming, and all letter is not very sweet. Some letter little bitter, some letter little sour. Many things in that letter. That man inspired when I went to America. He was alone. Now he wants to come in society, see my preaching mood. But his mood always telling ‘my Guru, your Guru, my Guru, your Guru’. First necessary to remove it. Guru is one (inaudible). Feelings will come that way and not necessary to take name of his Guru, and not necessary to take name of my Guru. We are all brothers. Sonhood of Godhead living in the middle. That is Mahāprabhu’s conception, ‘Sonhood of Godhead’.

42:59 Sonhood means he have father, mother, he have uncle, sister, he have nephew, he have friends, he have servants, he have many things. Around the family, he is living in the centre. That is Sonhood of Godhead. And we are servant of servant of Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa, Nanda-gopa-kumārāya: He is the son of Nanda Mahārāj, and we are worshipping Him. Then our relation always will be fine with everyone, and that will be very happy thing, when we can make it happily.

Devotee: Harmonious …

Śrīla Gurudev: Harmonious. Jay Guru Mahārāj. Now I shall go out, Prabhu.